Whilst I understand the need to be able to step back a little from the organisation you work for to provide a perceived impartial approach to accident investigations or to provide advice that guides the company, I think the advantages of this approach are far outweighed by the advantages of being seen as part of the team.
An outsider will never get to have the level of open and honest conversation that provides an insight to a worker’s concerns or expertise without the trust and confidence that comes with a team mentality.
Try conducting investigation interviews with people who see you as an outsider; they would immediately see you as the health and safety police regardless of how much you try to convince them you are not looking for someone to blame.
The same is true of some leadership teams; as an outsider it can become difficult to persuade some senior leaders that you have the best interest of the company at heart, rather than simply reciting legislation and regulation to make life difficult.
I have worked as both a consultant (the outsider), and for a single entity where I spent a colossal amount of the first 2 years trying to dispel the amount of suspicion that comes with any new employee – multiply that out as a new health and safety manager!!!
I have to say engagement, cooperation and collaboration is far easier and productive when you are seen as a valuable team member.
Get inside your team, build relationships, join in. It works
Thank me later!!

I completely agree with Alan and was about to write a similar reply. I disagree fundamentally with Rosa Carrillo's proposition. Safety people should be on the train with everybody else, instead of running alongside gesticulating.

I also believe they need to speak more about the overall benefits to the organisation and stop thinking they need to be "passionate" about health and safety. Being passionate frankly just makes us look detached from the realities of business. Neither an outsider, nor a teammate, just a nuisance.

To be taken seriously, we have to be able to communicate in terms of the overall success of the business. It puts us on a "team" level and helps with trust, credibility and respect.

Perhaps if Rosa is talking about being an outsider in the context of manager/sub-ordinate relationships. Being a manager means you have to maintain a certain level of professional distance with your staff. Its the old case of banter and jokes with them today, but needing to fire them tomorrow. Its difficult to do that if they are a "mate". If that professional separation that makes a person an "outsider" in her context then I do agree.

If its an outsider in the context of being seen as "outside" the organisation or business, then I am with the other commenters and disagree. In my experience much more is gained by being part of the team.

"I also believe they need to speak more about the overall benefits to the organisation and stop thinking they need to be "passionate" about health and safety. Being passionate frankly just makes us look detached from the realities of business. Neither an outsider, nor a teammate, just a nuisance."

Spot on @

Couldn't agree more. As a consultant I used to tell leaders that the cost of doing something in health and safety couldn't be used as an excuse for not doing it unless it was excessively disproportionate. Then I moved into a role in a business and discovered very quickly that cost is absolutely part of the decision making process. Not because a business is looking for reason s not to implement reasonable controls, but because they are a business. Passion can only take you so far. I'm passionate about taking care of the folks that work, but having a an eye on cost, business and the overall goal makes you relevant to the business itself, not merely necessary.

I wonder if the word 'outsider' is not quite right. I feel that I don't necessarily belong to any one team, but rather can move between all teams, and build great relationships as I do so. I am outside of the teams but it gives me a great over view and I don't necessarily know (or need to know) all the operational details immediately. Although not really belonging to a team can feel isolating and lonely, the flipside is that I can join any team if I want since I have built that relationship, and as a backup there are always the H&S networks to draw on!
However, I have the sole official H&S role in the organisation, I can be a team of one. If you were to expand the concept to a bigger team of H&S people within an organisation, then I imagine the logistics would be quite different to achieve the status of not belonging to any one team and yet still have the fluidity to join any team when there is an existing "H&S" team designation.
I dislike the phrase 'outsider' as it brings to mind an 'us and them' point of view.

Working in Health and Safety (H&S) roles often gives you a unique perspective that can sometimes set you apart from your colleagues. This outsider viewpoint can help you identify potential risks and areas for improvement, which is an integral part of your job. However, it's completely understandable to feel lonely or uncertain sometimes, especially if your peers don’t share your concerns about safety.

While this different perspective can enhance your focus and provide a strong sense of purpose in promoting safety and well-being, it can also take a toll on your mental health. It's vital to seek support from peers, mentors, or professional networks who understand your challenges. Striving for a balance between being a safety advocate and fostering connections within the organisation is key to maintaining your well-being. Remember, open communication and collaboration can help bridge those gaps and alleviate feelings of isolation. You are not alone in this journey.

Hard to believe why it could even be suggested that a health and safety person should be an outsider in an organisation, for all the good reasons explained above. Workers and management want you to be part of the organisation, not separate to it. It's not always easy for s health and safety person to be accepted or trusted within an organisation, at any level. Building relationships is essential, and can only be done from the inside.

I think what Rosa is trying to say is that health and safety people need to be ‘outsiders’ is and they are not tied to anyone's team so they can keep their professional objectivity. As the saying goes, we can't read the label when you're inside the jam jar. While the in-house team may be so focused on meeting client/production needs, they miss the big hairy gorillas that could kill someone. See "the selective attention test". https://youtu.be/vJG698U2Mvo?si=X2tJKKvJxsIe9byQ

The challenge is that speaking “truth to power” or in effect telling a team that their baby is ugly/possibly life-threatening can come at a high psychosocial cost. Nobody wants to be known as the “fun police”.

This is why to be truly effective I think health and safety leaders need to report directly to the CEO and have a seat at the table where they can listen carefully and get curious about what is going on.

It's interesting to me because in the IT world, this role is seen as the ‘Black Hat’ role and is valued by project teams. This is the person who asks the hard questions and tries to “break things” while there's still in the testing phase, rather than out in the real world.

It's why I think HSE people need to have professional supervision so they can keep a positive focus and not get bogged down/ overwhelmed.