I agree. I think unfortunately, as with everything, not all auditors are the same. And the update to standards sometimes leaves people behind as they fail to adjust their style and the requirements. These days it should be risk based auditing, as much as the client maturity allows.

There is nothing in the standards that requires a manual either. :smile:

I haven't been on here for a few years, but clicked back on the bookmark link and noticed this one. I am a senior Telarc auditor, wouldn't classify myself as a leech though. I'd be happy to receive the feedback offline and feed it back in to our system Sarah.
There are a few things here that I would say are the basic principles to auditing a management system. Are the areas that the standards require to be maintained as documented information in place, only six areas of those in ISO 45001:2018.
Are we doing what we say we do, basic internal requirement of the standard and part of your own internal audit program.
The critical part of the standards, are some of the core words. The organisational shall determine, not the auditor. If the organisation determines how and what it writes and how certain things will be achieved, e.g. what competency means, then auditors must accept this, as long as it meets the standard.
Documented information can be in whatever format and style the organisation chooses. So if you provide flowcharts, videos, a manual etc. And they cover the basic requirements of the standard, then that is all acceptable.
The new standards, when used properly, are actually good tools as the amount of the office time and actual documented information has significantly reduced. The new standards require understanding workers levels of engagement, participation, consultation and understanding and this can only really be done by having good on-site conversations and discussions.
I'd push back on this if it was a specific requirement. If it was a general discussion about having more information documented than is actually needed these days then it can be considered, but must be weighed up against what is best for the client.

Chris. I know that the clinical direction of the large provider of ambulance services allows for expired first aid equipment, provided it isn't likely to be ingested or absorbed. Where items have expired (bandages etc.) they should be subject to visual inspection and if they are damaged or similar they should be discarded (in the best method possible, see Rob's comment above). As an auditor what we look for is whether you have a policy around this and therefore you are implementing this.