• Peter Bateman
    195
    Team New Zealand boss Grant Dalton has provided the year's most colourful quote about health & safety.
    In an extensive report (paywalled) in the NZ Herald, Dalton is said to have declined the opportunity to attend a seminar to identify risks for the America's Cup event scheduled to be held in Auckland next year.
    His emailed response to the invitation was [with Herald redactions]:
    "I would rather staple my c*** to a burning building [than] attend a health and safety briefing - are you kidding me, that would be the most f****** boring arse-covering load of mind-numbing bullocks [sic] ever invented."
    I laughed out loud when I read this. Then I felt guilty - was I laughing at him or with him?
    Sometimes it can be hard to tell.
  • Andrew
    312
    And that's why Team NZ are winners.
  • PaulReyneke
    29
    And we are surprised why our 'profession' is not held in high regard. Some of the stuff I sometimes read (even on this forum) makes me cringe - "arse-covering load of mind-numbing bullocks (sic)".
  • MattD2
    169
    Some of the stuff I sometimes read (even on this forum) makes me cringePaulReyneke
    I always cringe when at any conference or similar event the MC always starts with
    "First let's just get the usual H&S stuff out of the way..."
    "fire exits..." - ok
    "evacuation assembly point..." - alright
    "toilets..." - yeah, good to know
    "break times..." - hmmmmm
    "morning tea / lunch will be a buffet of..." - huh?
    "parking will be validated..." - wait, what? When did getting free parking become part of safety?

    A big part of the issue is a lot of what is perceived to be related to H&S is actually just H&S being used as an easy out to justify something needing to be done without actually having to justify it, aren't we are all sick of hearing "we can do XYZ because of H&S"
  • Leah Fry
    2
    How about going to a safety awards evening when MC's joke is "hands up all H&S advisors" followed up by the punch line of "everybody f***ing hates you!" Joking ... but again did we laugh at or with?
  • Aaron Marshall
    52

    Yeah, and often these are given at a building that is 90% of the time occupied by member of the public who don't receive (or need) this info.
    All public occupied building have evac schemes developed at the building design stage with the assumption of occupants not having this info. So, what is being achieved with the 'usual H&S stuff'?
  • Amy Richards
    24
    Lol, Grant Dalton has raced maxi yachts in the worlds most dangerous ocean dodging icebergs – 7 times! Grant raced in a time when the first women’s yacht entry were not expected to make it past the Canary Islands. If you are familiar with the Maiden story, H&S was used a front for more sinister means. The same carry on happened when Jessica Watson set out on her adventure. And ya know what, they smashed it! He has been around sailors who have set epic goals, challenged the status quo, taken risks, and have become inspirations and legends in their own right. The leadership skills of a skipper needs to be top notch to keep crew mentally, physically, and emotionally safe in the worlds harshest climates making split second decisions, it’s of the highest level. So I can understand his reaction when asked to sit thru a hazard meeting.

    In saying all that, given his status and OBE, he didn’t need to be so rude.

    So, Mr Dalton, I send you another H&S invite. I invite you to my yacht on the 11th November at Westhaven (its berthed only 50m from the RNZYS) come on down, I’ll pour you a rum, and let’s talk about how can the concepts of ocean racing be brought across to the everyday workforce. What lessons from operating in one of the world’s most unforgiving climates can be utilised to be benefit of every single NZer who heads off to work every single day. I’d love to hear your thoughts.

    …hmmm this could turn into a social media campaign!
  • MattD2
    169
    So I can understand his reaction when asked to sit thru a hazard meeting.Amy Richards
    I expect that he's had to sit through a number of them in the past... and I can imagine him thinking in them " are we here to manage risk or do we just care about the liability?"
  • Andrew
    312
    My money is on him thinking how to race a boat.
  • Steve H
    63
    My money would be on Grant figuring out smart ways to ensure his team follows the first rule of yacht racing, get in front, second rule; stay in front. Rule three? see rules one and two :grin:
  • PaulReyneke
    29
    The below is not a reflection on the responses above - I think you already understand the irony.

    To continue the discussion though, look at some of the topics we 'discuss' on here: how do we reward/pay Safety Reps, should people sign the minutes of a safety meeting, e-scooters in the workplace, the myriad unit standard training on all sorts of obscure topics, are ISO audits useful or not, etc. Is safety a profession or not!

    I am regularly astonished how little safety 'professionals' know about change management, human behaviour, basic engineering principles and the other principles underpinning what we do. How can you bring about change if you have no base to work from? How can we get the Grant Daltons - and there are many of them out there - listen to us if we cannot with any authority talk about why and how we will achieve a particular outcome?

    We can forget to ever have sapiential authority, where people who are experts in their fields want our inputs, where they see us as adding to theirs by the wisdom we bring.
  • Trudy Downes
    38
    Love this!

    I have come to the conclusion that many people don't know about change management (organisational rather than project). But it is powerful stuff in the H&S field and I have found it a very successful way to get people on board.

    Our jobs should be to get people to think and communicate... and then health and safety will be an outcome from there if we get the other management ducks lined up in a row as well.
  • Tony Watson
    6
    Yep, I hear where Grant is coming from...

    I work in a sector (Agriculture) where 'H&S' is definitely a tainted brand and plenty of farming folk share his sentiments, often less eloquently...

    They know the folders and a few signs make no difference at all - yet somehow they think they need these to 'prove to WorkSafe' they're taking health and safety seriously.
    Reality is, farmers have more chance of being killed on the job than being prosecuted by WorkSafe, or more chance of being injured than receiving a notice of any kind.

    We're looking at how we can tap into this idea (Grant's thinking) by making sure farmers are crystal clear on the things that can injure or kill them - and get them to realise it's the decisions they make in relation to these things that matter (even if they've done the thing a thousand times)

    Add in a few higher level controls eg seatbelts on tractors, utes and side-buy-sides, and I reckon we'll make a difference.

    Would love to better understand how we can do this in a farm friendly way ie avoiding H&S speak ("higher level controls"), without diluting the meaning. Thoughts?
  • Tony Watson
    6
    Yep, this sounds about right!

    I don't have an H&S background but I do see good operators (farmers, contractors on farm etc) with safety built into every day activities, not as a separate thing. To them, it's just stuff that makes sense - they don't want breakdowns in people or machinery and they put things in place to get the result they're after.

    Seem to get much more traction when we're talking about better business performance not H&S per se (with the associated collective rolling of eyes!)
  • Peter Bateman
    195
    Sounds like farmers would appreciate a Safety-II approach: talk to them about their work (not about H&S) and then ask some questions around what frustrates them, what work-arounds they have to take and in which circumstances, etc. So you can demonstrate your interest in their work and that your motivation is to help make it better.
  • Tony Watson
    6
    You're right there Peter, can almost sense the visible relief when they expect H&S speak, but hear someone talking 'commonsense'.

    I reckon the challenge is finding a way to get farmers into a habit of doing this themselves ie stop and take a moment to ask themselves these questions when they're often working alone and 'too busy'.

    Any ideas?
  • Peter Bateman
    195
    Mind you, the prospect of asking Grant Dalton what frustrates him is a bit daunting.
  • Peter Scanlan
    4
    Grant Dalton's attitude is funny. But if one of his crew died due to a H&S process going wrong, the laughing would stop real quick. Dalton does not need to attend the briefing, but I hope he does not take that attitude if one of his staff wants to raise a H&S matter with him...
  • Steve H
    63
    My money would be on Grant figuring out smart ways to ensure his team follows the first rule of yacht racing, get in front, second rule; stay in front. Rule three? see rules one and twoSteve H

    Good to see Team NZ following the rules :up:
  • Steve H
    63
    Well done Luna Rossa Prada Pirelli Team, game on, one all
  • Janet Mary Houston
    22
    I'm disappointed in the Grant's comment, it's all too familiar on construction sites and farms here in NZ. Yes I want NZ to win and yes no doubt that Grant is probably one of the best in the world at what he does, but his rhetoric and way it was delivered speaks volumes. A backwards step for us in the H&S profession, we are constantly striving to improve peoples perspective of H&S. Most H&S professionals have single focus and it is not about arse covering - it is about no one getting killed or injured on their watch.
  • Amy Richards
    24
    Five months ago I placed a H&S invitation to Grant Dalton on this thread. I had every intention of tracking Grant down for a casual conversation on my yacht but alas the purchase timeframe blew out longer than I expected, and I didn’t hold ownership rights until it was too late. Then I had to sail it halfway down the country.

    However, this is not over and the invitation still stands.

    Clearly Grant Dalton has something to say, and I’d like to think that the H&S industry is ready and willing to learn from him. I reckon we are an incredibly connected bunch of people on here so let’s get that invitation through to him. Operation ‘Grants Rants’ begins!

    I don’t have, nor can I find, any contact details for GD, therefore I’m looking for someone connected enough to know how to reach him. Are you associated with one of the ETNZ sponsors and in a position of influence to reach out. Sponsors are:

    • Emirates
    • Toyota
    • Spark
    • McDonalds
    • Omega
    • SkyCity
    • Genesis
    • Steinlager
    • HP
    • TVNZ
    Themarket.com
    • McKinsey & Company

    Perhaps you know of someone in an associated entity such as:

    • Americas Cup Events Ltd
    • Team New Zealand
    • PR or media company used by the above
    • RNZYS
    • Yachting NZ
    • The company who invited him to the first H&S seminar

    I’m also going to need a place to invite him, my yacht is no longer in Auckland, so if anyone has an alternative let me know.

    This could be the uprising we have been waiting for, so if you’re onboard and can help, send me a message and let’s track him down for what I’m sure will be an interesting discussion on H&S. :)
  • Steve H
    63
    This could be the uprising we have been waiting for, so if you’re onboard and can help, send me a message and let’s track him down for what I’m sure will be an interesting discussion on H&S. :)Amy Richards

    With maybe two more days of finals racing, good luck with that one Amy. If, ETNZ had capsized during a race, or workup, and had some boat crew damaged or lost, then no doubt Grant's words might have seen him hoist by his own petard. But after seeing the ETNZ response to Inos's trip and stumble, it seems like they have H&S covered off

    .
    Most H&S professionals have single focus and it is not about arse covering - it is about no one getting killed or injured on their watch.Janet Mary Houston

    Would absolutely agree with you Janet, unfortunately, for a lot of general management, it is totally about butt covering, for the least possible cost, and usually only if there is some legal compulsion (real or perceived)

    Another heart stopping day out on the water, two up now and two passes.
  • Craig Macdonald
    2
    Hi all. I think most of us can relate to the comment (and it's humour) as I am sure we have all been there at some point. Just to provide some context, the initial Risk Review was with a selection of key stakeholders and it laid the foundations of the risk management approach to managing safety for the whole event. It culminated in an event that ran over 3 months, involved 4 syndicates, over 800 amazing volunteers, a dedicated and welcoming security team, multiple contractors/suppliers, a site that was nearly 1km long, retail outlets (cafes and restaurants) opening onto the Event Village foot print, across a large several COVID-19 Alert Level changes, a syndicate's boat capsizing during a race, over 500,000 visitors to the village, over 10,000 spectator boats on the water, and no serious injuries. The risk management approach included great planning and input from a number of people, combined with very competent and committed people managing key workstreams. All of this contributed to the great result (on and off the water).
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