Certainly not something I've seen very much, even when I was an Inspector. The agriculture sector was where I've most commonly come across young workers. Part 4 of the GRWM Regulations puts some pretty specific limitations on workplaces regarding young people.

As we (society) grapple with truancy, the purpose and function of (secondary) education and worker shortages, reconsidering the opportunities that are made available to young people will become increasingly questioned (I suspect).

Gotta wonder what happens when the PCBU is under 15.

The PCBU is the legal entity operating (conducting) a business or undertaking, not a person.

From the definition in the Act:

In this Act, unless the context otherwise requires, a person conducting a business or undertaking or PCBU—
(a) means a person conducting a business or undertaking—
(i) whether the person conducts a business or undertaking alone or with others; and
(ii) whether or not the business or undertaking is conducted for profit or gain; but...

(my emphasis)
clause (a)(i) implies that a PCBU is an individual. (e.g. a sole trader)

This is not a hypothetical scenario - my son is under 15, and manufactures food products for sale as a sole trader, as he is not yet old enough to be a company director.
As he is under 15, he falls foul of working in a manufacturing of goods for sale, as well as working with hazardous goods, as he has to sanitise equipment prior to use. I'd argue against the machinery part of the regulation as everything he uses at this stage is domestic.

@Alan Boswell as per Section 17 a PCBU means a person conducting a a business or undertaking whether the person conducts a business or undertaking alone or with others.

So there is situation where a young person could be a PCBU (probably intentionally by a nefarious boss) i.e. a 'sole trader'. Similarly, a young person could potentially be an 'Officer' (although there maybe rules in the Companies Act that prevent, I don't know). I suspect @Aaron Marshall posed this as an intellectual exercise to explore the extent of the problem and for a bit of humor.

The question still remains though, to what extent do we, as a society and as a profession accept young people into the workplace?

Hi Aaron,
It is confusing, I agree. Person in the context of PCBU is a legal entity, whilst a sole trader (the actual human being) would be the officer, the PCBU would be the company/business/undertaking he or she operates under. For all intents and purposes when someone operates as a sole trader, it's the same thing, the responsibility falls on the same shoulders. The difference in definition would become important if a prosecution eventuates. For instance, if Bob owns Bob's Garage (a one man band), Bob's Garage is the PCBU, and Bob is the Officer (and also, the worker). Bob's Garage could be prosecuted as the PCBU, but if the prosecution is against the Officer it is Bob the man who would foot the bill personally, not his business.

Huh, I was writing my response to Alan at the same time and hadn't read yours when I posted.
- And so there we have it - An under 15 y/o PCBU and Officer (is he a nefarious boss :wink: ?)

Hi Matt,
No employee under 15 can work on a construction site, or in an are where the work being done is likely to harm them.
Society has got it covered!!

Nefarious? Sometimes he can be a bit demanding, but I'd stop short of nefarious.

The end result is the same - a person under 15 cannot work in their own business?
Now I'd argue that this is not 'reasonably practicable' to not allow someone to work in their own business.

Interestingly enough, this wasn't even a consideration when it came to food licensing - it all had to be in his name, even if I countersigned.

For the purpose of robust debate I going to disagree that 'society has got it covered'.

Reg 4 of the GWRM has some good clarity about <15 y/o's in various workplaces, however that is the law, not to be confused with society.

In a perfect system the two will be aligned, however right now there is a strong desire from some parents and education providers to give young people greater access to apprenticeships, many sectors are facing critical worker shortages with some calling to allow young people to fill the void, and as the event that sparked this thread shows, workplaces ARE allowing young people to work. All this is (a portion of) society expressing its desire.

I work in a lead industry, lead being medically proven to cause significant and irreversible harm to young people. I will defend absolutely a position of not exposing this vulnerable population to an intolerable harm. Not because of the law (the law is really helpful in supporting me), rather because the research and data support the position.

What research and data supports the exclusion of young people from other workplaces, such as construction and food & beverage?@Aaron Marshall's son would quite probably and rightly be crushed to be told to close up shop: so how would we defend such a move?

And just to be clear, I am NOT advocating to let 14 y/o's wield chainsaws through the forests and have 12 y/o's take the tractor down SH47, rather that we have well informed and founded standards that exist for real reasons, that we are open to our standards being changed as time and technology changes, and that we don't place artificial constraints on any group of people.

I absolutely agree Matthew, I was a little glib! The law has it covered, I was just hoping that the (at least) majority of society would agree with it! Under 15's can work, just not in an environment that would expose them to a level of risk unacceptable to a child.

I don't think the law does have it covered.
My (non-hypothetical) example still stands. However, I'd like to see Worksafe prosecute a 10 year-old for employing themselves.

Don't get me wrong, there are definitely times and places where young people should not be, such as @Matthew Bennett's example. However, the blanket statements made in these regulations cover such a wide range of situations that it is prohibitive. e.g. Young workers can't work with machinery, which if you read a strict interpretation of the definition, includes the domestic appliances that my son uses for juicing.

There's a subtle difference between domestic and industrial machinery, and its the use of the latter which the act is attempting to protect the younger person against. Using domestic machinery in a work setting does not make it industrial grade, something the manufacturers and retailers will quickly let you know if things start to breakdown.

We will always be able to provide an example where there is/should be an exception to the rule, but this tragic death shows why we can't make a rule for exception. Younger adults just don't have the maturity or risk awareness and retain too much curiosity to make the same judgements that we do as mature adults.

however, the regulation doesn't make any distinction between domestic and industrial.
Regulations that require exemptions are, by definition poorly written. These regulations were driven by
My son is seriously looking at commercial grade equipment, which ironically would be safer to operate than our domestic appliances.
So, as you can understand, this isn't a hypothetical for us. We are working with glass, hot liquids, and sanitising solution.
I don't want to fall foul of an over-zealous individual within the regulator. Been there, done that and don't want to do it again.

This was very sad & annoying to read. For me, it emphasizes the fact the Worksafe do not have a visible or active enough presence in industry. If there were more Inspectors out in the field I suspect there would be far more improvement notices or prosecutions. The sad fact is that there are an overwhelming amount of PCBU's that simply don't bother or care about H&S because the Regulator is not proactive in Enforcement.

Totally agree Stuart and the steadily increasing serious harm accidents are testimony to this.

Not normally a "The Hui" viewer, but last night's one featured a young scaffolder who received a severe high voltage electric shock when he was deconstructing a scaffold around a house. Well worth watching, Three Now,[url=http://The Hui 20th Sept 2022] https://www.threenow.co.nz/shows/the-hui/tuesday-20-september-2022/125685/M62945-281 [/url]

While you are about it, this podcast might be worth a listen The Dangers Of Working In New Zealand